Author Topic: Gen 2 suspension questions  (Read 1965 times)

Giovanni

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Gen 2 suspension questions
« on: August 21, 2018, 07:50:30 AM »
I'm looking at putting new suspension on my 96 SR and lifting it 1" while I'm at it. I was looking at the Rancho RS9000XL because I'd like the adjustability and claim to be for 0-1" lift, but then I discovered that the rears have less than 6 inches of travel and that seemed pretty low. Interestingly their cheaper, non-adjustable RS5000 for the Monteros have more travel than that (just less than 1 inch more). The OME has almost 9 inches of travel but says it's for a 1.5" lift.
So what's stock?
Does anyone know how much travel the bilstein 4600 have? I can't seem to find that one.

Should I even be overly concerned about the shock absorber travel or are there other more important specs to look at? I haven't bought suspension before, and certainly not for offroading.

I've heard some good stuff about the OME shocks and the bilsteins. I've also heard good things about the Ranchos and very little from the Montero crowd. The Bilstein and Rancho both have a lifetime warranty. The OME have a 3 year which has me thinking that the bilsteins or the Ranchos would be better in the long run, depending on what the warranty will cover.

As far as springs, I haven't decided between the ADD or OME ones yet. Are the progressive rate springs significantly better for a vehicle that will see a wide range of cargo (from just me and my wife to fully loaded with camping gear and other stuff to probably towing eventually)?

How about the torsion bars? Is there a major difference between the ADD ones and the OME ones?

My Montero will see lots of highways, mountain roads and off road trails. So we really want to keep it in that sweet spot of being pretty good at everything.

Shovel

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2018, 09:06:56 AM »
The stock specification Bilstein HD's for the rear have 160mm of travel (295mm-455mm) supposedly - that's 6.3".    There used to be a .pdf on Bilstein's website with all those specs but I can't find it anymore.

I believe that the ADD specified 5100's offer 7.7" and 8.2" of travel depending if you get the mid travel or long travel ones but please don't rely on that info exclusively,  it's second hand information from old threads. 

With stock springs, be aware that too much travel can allow the spring to fall out.    That's not a danger with the Bilstein stock replacements.   

I have direct experience with the Bilstein HD (4600) and with 5100s and KYB Gas-A-Just and Monomax on these trucks, and with kinda every cheap/"Autozone"/4WheelParts-available shock in the universe on other trucks.   I don't have first hand with the OME's or Ranchos but have not heard bad things about the OME's.   The only thing I have read about the Rancho RS9000's are one of the guys on the Facebook group said the adjustability is a joke and it's never right - but I think that was in response to a question you asked so you probably know as much as I do about them. 

Concerning the 5100 vs. HD's,  the 5100s for our trucks are definitely a rock crawler product for drivers who know for sure that's what they want - it's a very supple ride like a stadium truck and they are not for everybody.     The HD's are valved more for sport and highway but they are not harsh (no "slam") on bumpy roads or speed bumps.   Both are physically constructed identically the differences are limited to valving, length and paint job.

My Montero has the ADD 1" lift coils and do not have first hand experience with the OME lift coils.    The ADD lift coils have not had any negative effects on the ride character while empty (not harsh) and allow the rear to stay up when I load the vehicle.   I can't compare them with the OME's but I can say that the ADD ones did exactly what I wanted and I'm very happy with them.   I did add a 0.5" spacer between my bumpstop and frame because I noticed the coil spring could stack on extremely abrupt bumps while loaded.   The spacer eliminated that problem.   

Like you I don't want any compromises - it has to do everything well.  My recipe for that has been Bilstein HD's (stock replacement) and ADD 1" lift coils,   front Timbren bumpstops borrowed from a dump truck,  rear bumpstop extensions and leaving the front and rear sway bars in place with new bushings & links all around.    It's probably not the only way to get there but I'm happy. 

Be aware that if you adjust the ride height of your Montero you will want to also adjust the rear brake proportioning valve.   The axle-side bracket has slotted bolt guides and can be moved - instruction is in the FSM.

Crumb

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2018, 03:49:14 PM »
 Brilliant! Shovel.


 Here's a link to some shock length info on a bunch of brands.

https://forum.adventuredrivendesign.com/index.php/topic,139.msg468.html#msg468

Giovanni

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2018, 07:33:54 AM »
That was very thorough, thank you. I was leaning towards the bilstein 4600s because of what you had told me before. That other post is quite helpful as well. Now I just need a comparison on the stiffness and ride quality of all the different options lol

Crumb

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2018, 04:48:27 PM »
 I've run the following;
Ranchos = softest/offroad shock
5100's = next softest/better behaved offroad shock
Tokico = supple/middle road i feel that these are the "poor boy's" do everything shock
I've driven 4600's plus Eric's intel = about perfect for everything
Driven OME = also about perfect as well + a little firmness
Koni = sporty/firm mostly road
KYB = Kill Your Back/very firm very road friendly if not a pure road shock


 Hope this helps

reversecaoboy

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2018, 03:09:53 PM »
Real good info toasty.


that_guy_eric

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2018, 09:54:42 AM »
I have had the OME complete setup on our 98 for three years, it will get you wherever you as the driver will dare to take your rig. The progressive rate of the rear springs allows you to carry more weight without sag and remove the rear sway bar for better wheel/axle travel.

Giovanni

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2018, 08:37:36 PM »
Awesome! That's some great info. And thank you toasty for the run down on how the shocks tide.

Servingko

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2018, 09:25:41 AM »
Unless something has changed in the past couple weeks, 4600 rears are still not available anywhere in spite of what websites may say.  Bilstein is retooling their manufacturing and don’t know when they will be in.  After ordering them from 7 different retailers and being informed they were out of stock after being assured they could source them, I called Bilstein and got the skinny.

Koni heavy tracks can be ordered and specially made with a 3-4 month lead time from the Netherlands.  Having run pretty much everything else on Monty’s since 1984, I ordered 5100’s for my recently acquired 92 SWB Diesel Paj Import.  I am liking them but would have run the 4600’s were they available.  I ran Tokico blues on all the Gen 1’s that were included in the John Baker Baja suspension kits and really liked the shocks and the whole kit.  He made and put together some good stuff. 

On my 98 I have been running my last set of Edlebrock IAS Performers made by Ricor iirc.  They also made the shocks for the Dakar Pajero and are truly amazing.  Very similar to the Koni FSR’s I have run and continue to run, on many street cars.

Not a huge fan of the rancho’s, skyjackers, or any of the other typical “off road”shocks and I think I have tried them all.  The OME’s are good but didn’t last as long as I would have expected - typically about 35k give or take.  The single stage KYB’s are probably the best bang for the buck but are pretty firm.  The generic 5100 (5125 actually) are most likely the best option for Montero/Pajero/Shogun/Galloper et al currently available without breaking the bank.  I have liked all things Bilstein over years and if they make one that fits your ride, they are worthy of your consideration.  Just installed the application specific 5100’s on my sons new F150 and they are pretty sweet and allowed for easy leveling of the front as a bonus.

Giovanni

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2018, 12:36:03 PM »
I actually ordered some 4600s about a month or so ago and have already received both front and rear. I found the fronts on Amazon and the rears on ebay. There was a delay on the ebay ones but it was only a couple weeks, so there must still be some floating around.

mlp490

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2020, 11:19:59 PM »
I realize this is an old thread but I'm hoping someone with some firsthand experience can offer some advice. I live in Costa Rica and purchased a 95 Gen2 3.5L not long ago. The suspension is very tired and needs replaced. Pretty much the only suspension kit I can find here is Old Man Emu. So, I think I will go with their springs. But, I would prefer to go with the Bilstein shocks, either the 4600 or 5100. I have read everything I can find on them but just need a bit more clarification.
Many of the roads here are rocky, washboard, rough dirt/gravel roads. And my goal is to be able to drive on them without having to go super slow (as I do now because of the worn suspension. i.e. lots of bounce, very rough). I am leaning towards the 5100's because everything says how soft they are on these types of roads. But I'm afraid they would be too soft and bounce over large bumps. The 4600's also get great reviews. I would lean towards these because I really don't like bounce. How much stiffer are they? Does anyone have experience with the ADD Combo Breaker kit? Or either of these combo's?

IncorpoRatedX

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Re: Gen 2 suspension questions
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2020, 12:36:13 PM »
if you 'mostly' drive on rubble roads, dirt and gravel roads, washboards and field type environment and you -do not- carry large hitch or cargo loads; the 5100 will be the best possible ride for that type of use.

If you carry a lot of equipment, tools, gear or anything above 400lbs of cargo, the 4600 are more tuned for your use but wont be as soft and comfortable of a ride on the rubble and washboards. 4600's have been experiencing stock-out situations though, so check with your suppliers. Stateside we are back ordered on 4600's til October, and that's for orders placed today.

The deciding factor between the two shocks tends to be the traveling load, if loaded down the suspension will naturally cycle more with a softer shock.