Author Topic: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?  (Read 11595 times)

Cosmos99

  • Member
  • Posts: 33
  • I'm new here!
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2018, 01:10:57 PM »
I'm also running 33's on a Gen 2.5 Winter, but with stock 4.27's. We plan to relocate to CO, but in the meantime we do annual trips up to explore the backcountry. I'm planning on going with 4.63's when I upgrade my gears mostly due to the cost of 4.90's for those of us with factory air lockers.

When you move out here we should link up. The 4.63's are not bad in town 5300ft and they handle going up the steep canyon roads decently here. The big set back is the high country passes at 10k and above.  Vail pass was not fun at 11,000 plus....I would prefer the 4.90's but it's not worth doing at the moment for me. I will however be doing a shift kit soon.
Gen 1 1987 Radier 2.6 ( sold )
94 Montero LS with 93k miles
99 Montero overland ready.

kalieracer

  • Member
  • Posts: 108
  • I'm new here!
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2018, 08:21:58 PM »
Not following here, the 4.63 swap will be about the same as the 4.90. 5.29 is the expensive one

I'm also running 33's on a Gen 2.5 Winter, but with stock 4.27's. We plan to relocate to CO, but in the meantime we do annual trips up to explore the backcountry. I'm planning on going with 4.63's when I upgrade my gears mostly due to the cost of 4.90's for those of us with factory air lockers.

Crumb

  • Member
  • Posts: 734
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2018, 09:58:46 PM »
I think he means that he can just slap in junkyard parts and go because the 4.90's require a gear setup to transfer into a locking 3rd where the 4.63's can be had with a locker already installed.

B

  • Member
  • Posts: 14
  • Mitsubishi Hoarder
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2018, 06:12:01 AM »
The mountain passes are brutal for my Montero in CO, 33's with 4.27, fully loaded with RTT. Even with turning overdrive off and trying to keep RPMs high the truck still starts to get warm. I desperately want to swap to 4.90's, but do I first have to source a locking rear setup from a 2.5, or can I use a 4.63 locking rear and then swap gears into that? So many parts to source!
2000 Montero LWB 3.5 SOHC Endeavor

1990 Eclipse GSX 2.0 Turbo AWD E-85

1991 Talon TSi 2.0 Turbo AWD

concealer404

  • Member
  • Posts: 318
  • OH U MAF?
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2018, 08:47:54 AM »
The mountain passes are brutal for my Montero in CO, 33's with 4.27, fully loaded with RTT. Even with turning overdrive off and trying to keep RPMs high the truck still starts to get warm. I desperately want to swap to 4.90's, but do I first have to source a locking rear setup from a 2.5, or can I use a 4.63 locking rear and then swap gears into that? So many parts to source!

If you're doing 4.90s, you can grab a 4.27 or 4.63 locker rear to start, won't matter.  :)

And i agree:  4.27s and 33s on my truck was BRUTAL going over the Continental divide and through CO.
1998 Montero Winter Package (For Sale)
1994 FZJ80 Land Cruiser (Wife's)
2006 V8 4Runner Sport Edition (Mine)

kalieracer

  • Member
  • Posts: 108
  • I'm new here!
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2018, 10:15:43 AM »
I know but swapping the ring gear on 3rd that is already out is a relatively small cost in relation to the rest of the project in terms of labor and cost. He would still have to source the 4.63 / 4.90 parts either way.

I think he means that he can just slap in junkyard parts and go because the 4.90's require a gear setup to transfer into a locking 3rd where the 4.63's can be had with a locker already installed.

kalieracer

  • Member
  • Posts: 108
  • I'm new here!
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2018, 10:21:16 AM »
If you check ebay out you can get whole locked rear 4.63 as low as 270 bucks plus shipping (freight is fairly cheap) even front pumpkins can be found for 100-150. I know one of the members was selling a locked 3rd and everything you need to convert your 2000 truck to locked 4.27.

The mountain passes are brutal for my Montero in CO, 33's with 4.27, fully loaded with RTT. Even with turning overdrive off and trying to keep RPMs high the truck still starts to get warm. I desperately want to swap to 4.90's, but do I first have to source a locking rear setup from a 2.5, or can I use a 4.63 locking rear and then swap gears into that? So many parts to source!

concealer404

  • Member
  • Posts: 318
  • OH U MAF?
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2018, 10:43:47 AM »
I know but swapping the ring gear on 3rd that is already out is a relatively small cost in relation to the rest of the project in terms of labor and cost. He would still have to source the 4.63 / 4.90 parts either way.

I think he means that he can just slap in junkyard parts and go because the 4.90's require a gear setup to transfer into a locking 3rd where the 4.63's can be had with a locker already installed.

It's relatively small cost, but a rather large amount more than just slamming in some junkyard/used ready-to-rock 4.63s.
1998 Montero Winter Package (For Sale)
1994 FZJ80 Land Cruiser (Wife's)
2006 V8 4Runner Sport Edition (Mine)

B

  • Member
  • Posts: 14
  • Mitsubishi Hoarder
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2018, 07:12:44 PM »
The 4.63 rear end will work, with the different ABS gear and all? I thought I had to stick to the 4.27 locked rear because of that. I would take the whole thing to a diff shop with the 4.90 gears and have them put it together.

Whoever is selling the whole 4.27 locked assembly on here, I would definitely buy it!
2000 Montero LWB 3.5 SOHC Endeavor

1990 Eclipse GSX 2.0 Turbo AWD E-85

1991 Talon TSi 2.0 Turbo AWD

Shovel

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 585
  • POTATO
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2018, 09:23:32 PM »
The 4.63 rear end will work, with the different ABS gear and all? I thought I had to stick to the 4.27 locked rear because of that.

The ABS tone ring is on the axle shaft, not the diff. 

So you can put a diff locker from a gen 2 (with or without abs) in a gen 2.5 but you need an axle shaft from a locked gen 2.5 with the same size tone ring.  If your gen 2.5 already has a locker you can just dump the older 4.63 geared locker in there.   

4.90s are the GOO!

takenoheroes

  • Member
  • Posts: 5
  • wooder
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2018, 11:17:32 AM »
Do the SRs come with a different gear ratio than an LS? I have a 95 SR and want to put 33s on and also live at 6,000 ft and plan on only ever driving above that. Also, do those shift kits work with my transmission?
95 Montero SR

Zimdoc

  • Member
  • Posts: 11
  • I'm new here!
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2018, 12:49:30 PM »
Yes, SR's normally come with the 4.63 gear set and factory rear locker. You can check also what gear set you have by looking at the information plate in your engine bay I believe that's on the passenger side fire wall.

I have 4.63's and 33's and its decent driving around. I don't except much from the vehicle for performance so I drive mine like a big rig. Slow and in the right lane.

Shovel

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 585
  • POTATO
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2018, 01:55:19 PM »
Also, do those shift kits work with my transmission?

You should be ok with 33's,  power wise.. not great but OK. 

For reference with 33's on a Gen 2.5 with 4.27:1 gears you'd be turning 2283 rpm at 70mph (actual road speed, not necessarily speedometer indicated),  with 4.63's you'll be turning 2475rpm and with 4.90s' you'll be turning 2619rpm. 

Similarly if we pretend the engine's making a steady 200lb-ft of torque at all three of those RPM's (I don't have a dyno chart for a stock one, and it's hard to trust online dyno sheets from random people anyway)  you have hypothetically 640lb-ft at the wheels in 4th gear on 4.27's, 694lb-ft with 4.63's and 736lb-ft at the wheels with 4.90's.   

I know those numbers don't really tell you anything that the numerical relationship between them didn't already make obvious but sometimes it's good to look at the same information from more than one angle. 

For a more concrete answer,  last year JBFP and I drove around all over Northern Arizona and Southern Utah including plenty of time on the highways over 5000' - he on 33's with 4.63's (DOHC 3.5) and I on 32's and 4.90's (SOHC 3.5)  I wasn't trying to race or anything but JBFP didn't appear to have any trouble keeping up with me when there were hills or headwinds.   

I believe that the early 3.5's still had the AW4/40-30LE transmission and would therefore be a candidate for the shift kit,   best to call up TransGo and ask - their customer service line has been friendly and helpful in the past.

Cosmos99

  • Member
  • Posts: 33
  • I'm new here!
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2018, 10:45:08 AM »
Also, do those shift kits work with my transmission?

You should be ok with 33's,  power wise.. not great but OK. 

For reference with 33's on a Gen 2.5 with 4.27:1 gears you'd be turning 2283 rpm at 70mph (actual road speed, not necessarily speedometer indicated),  with 4.63's you'll be turning 2475rpm and with 4.90s' you'll be turning 2619rpm. 

Similarly if we pretend the engine's making a steady 200lb-ft of torque at all three of those RPM's (I don't have a dyno chart for a stock one, and it's hard to trust online dyno sheets from random people anyway)  you have hypothetically 640lb-ft at the wheels in 4th gear on 4.27's, 694lb-ft with 4.63's and 736lb-ft at the wheels with 4.90's.   

I know those numbers don't really tell you anything that the numerical relationship between them didn't already make obvious but sometimes it's good to look at the same information from more than one angle. 

For a more concrete answer,  last year JBFP and I drove around all over Northern Arizona and Southern Utah including plenty of time on the highways over 5000' - he on 33's with 4.63's (DOHC 3.5) and I on 32's and 4.90's (SOHC 3.5)  I wasn't trying to race or anything but JBFP didn't appear to have any trouble keeping up with me when there were hills or headwinds.   

I believe that the early 3.5's still had the AW4/40-30LE transmission and would therefore be a candidate for the shift kit,   best to call up TransGo and ask - their customer service line has been friendly and helpful in the past.

Thanks for the great info! The 4.63's are perfect in town at 5300ft and not too bad around 8000. It's just when I get up past 10k on highway passes that it begins to get anemic due sapping of horsepower at altitude.  I can deal with it since I don't do it all the time but sometimes it feels so bad screaming at 4500 rpms to keep it at 55mph on vail pass.
Gen 1 1987 Radier 2.6 ( sold )
94 Montero LS with 93k miles
99 Montero overland ready.

evomaki

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
  • I'm new here!
Re: Worth swapping from 4.65 to 4.90 with 33"'s?
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2018, 03:25:02 AM »
I'll jump in with my $0.02.  If you have 4.63 gearing with a factory locker,  the 4.90 gearing swap is work and $.  The 4.90 gearing with which I am available comes from certain model year Montero Sports.  That 4.90 third member is a bit shorter on the driver side, vs the 4.63 unit with factory locker.  You will need a longer driver side axel shaft to make up the difference.  There are two options:

1.  4.90 from a MOntero Sport.  I think the Sport driver side axle shaft will work, but check the tone ring.  Does it match?  I did not have that issue because I went with the 4.90 swap from a Sport into an open diff 4.27.  I retained my existing old axle shafts.  That is an easy third member swap, with one exception.  Why do this and have no locker?  So you have to buy the ARB set up and swap out the carrier in the pumpkin (install your 4.90 ring gear on the ARB unit and put that back into your third member.  That is relatively easy in the world of differential work as you are not messing with the pinion gear at all.  The downside here is buying the sport axle assemblies and the ARB.  Plan on spending at least $1,600 on all the goodies.

2.  Source 4.90 ring and pinion parts.  Either used from a Sport or new if available.  This will then take a real professional to install the gearing as the ring and pinion have to be set up.  That takes a pro.  This way you retain your factory locker and use your existing driveshafts.  I think it is some $$ to have that done.  You all may know better than me but might be about the same as option no. 1.

I'd probably just enjoy the vehicle and make sure the cooling system is up to the task.  The difference all this makes is not huge.  Maybe get some of those Marks re-gear for the transfer case from ADD.  Then you will be awesome in 4wd low.